Unemployment, Tithing, and God’s Provision
It’s been a month and a half since my husband lost his job. He’s worked a few different part time jobs, done a little freelance work, and is still currently looking for a nice full time job. It hasn’t been all bad though. We’ve spent more time together as a family, and we’ve learned a lot. And we’ve been stretched. But this isn’t the first time.
When my husband and I got married twelve years ago, my husband insisted that we give a tithe to our church. I didn’t grow up in a tithing family. We put a few dollars in the offering plate and called it good. Granted, we didn’t have a lot of money growing up, so that made sense to me. If we didn’t have the money, we shouldn’t tithe, right?
But my husband insisted. And being the loving new wife that I was, I reluctantly agreed. Still, it was hard writing such a big check every week. I mean, I was writing three digit checks. We’re not talking just a couple of dollars here! But out of respect for my husband, I continued to write the checks.
When I became a stay at home mom, our income took a big hit. Still, we kept on tithing. And my attitude began to change. Somehow, through some miracle, we continued to have everything we needed. We didn’t necessarily have everthying we wanted, but we had food, shelter, and clothing.
One time I remember standing in my kitchen. It was December 2001. My daughter was three years old, and it had been a rough year. After two years of trying to get pregnant, we did, but then I had a miscarriage. My dad had had a heart attack a few months earlier. My mom had just been diagnosed with leukemia. And I stood in the kitchen looking at pictures of our family vacation, and I cried.
You see, the pictures were taken with a camera that I had received as a Christmas gift in high school. It wasn’t an expensive camera, and it was dying. The pictures from our vacation weren’t very good. I was feeling sorry for myself, and I cried because we only had one child, and I couldn’t even afford a new camera to take good pictures of her. If only I had $150, I could surely buy a new camera.
I prayed for God to change my attitude. And I said nothing more. To anybody. I knew telling my husband would make him feel bad that he didn’t have a higher paying job. And he was hurting too, as our baby would have been due that week, had I not miscarried. So I dismissed any thought of a new camera.
A couple of days later, I went out to check the mail. There was an envelope from the church. I thought that was odd, because we weren’t expecting anything. When I opened the envelope, I pulled out a check for $150…the exact figure I’d come up with when I thought about a new camera.
When my husband came home, I excitedly told him everything I had experienced…the depression, the prayer, the excitement of opening the envelope. We bought the camera and had some left over for a car repair we needed. What a blessing!
And the thing is, that’s not the only time Jim and I have seen God’s provision in this way. We continue to tithe on my husband’s small check from his part time job. But I don’t stress about money anymore, and my reluctance at writing the tithe check has turned to joy and gratefulness. I know we will have what we need. And we may or may not be blessed with what we want. But that’s OK. My faith has grown through the hard times, and I treasure that growth.
I often think back on that lonely day in my kitchen and know that God hears my cry and cares about me. And I know that someday I will be able to look back at my current situation and see how God worked in my life.
In times like these, I lean heavily on Romans 8:28.
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Over the years I’ve learned that God’s definition of “good” and my definition of “good” are sometimes different. In the short term, God’s definition of good may look pretty bad to me. But in the long term, His definition of good is always better than I could have imagined.
Had we not gone through that terrible time in 2001, I wouldn’t have the memory of the despair I felt in the kitchen that day followed by the joy of realizing that God heard my cry and cares about me. And it’s often at our lowest times that we are able to see the love of God the clearest.
So despite our tight financial times, I will continue to tithe joyfully. I don’t know how it all works out, because it seems God’s math is different than my math. But I do know that He is worthy of my trust, and He won’t let me down.
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By Lynnae McCoy, on Dec 6, 2007
I'm Lynnae, wife of one and stay-at-home mom of two. I'm committed to getting out of debt by being frugal with my choices in life.
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Absolutely! I have so many stories like this–like when we were first married and only had $10 a week for groceries but kept tithing and God kept us from even bouncing a check and made sure we had everything we needed, and on and on and on. God is GOOD!
Honestly, I think it’s the discipline of tithing that makes it powerful. By forcing yourself to make do with less, you become satisfied with less. Being satisfied is good and will make you happy in the long run.
Almost everyone can survive on 90% of their income and doing so and giving the rest to a cause that you believe in, will make you more content.
After reading this, I feel like hugging you. Maybe you should collect a hug from your husband…
Thank you for sharing your testimony of the principle of Tithing. I have had so many instances where I know tithing blessed us-like when DH was in grad school and we were making $11,000/year, we had a new baby and lived in a tiny apartment in the ghetto. We paid our tithing and our needs were always met.
Great story! The situation is flipped in my world- I’m a huge tither, but I’m slowly bringing my reluctant husband on board. I’ve also see God work first-hand in other people’s lives who needed money. It just showed up in their mailbox too (from friend or family or the church). I hope that God blesses you during this difficult time in your life & I’m glad to see you are reflecting on God’s love and provisions that he’s given to you.
Thank you. I can’t and won’t give you my full story here, but your words about God brought me to tears today. I needed so much to hear again that He will provide. Thank you, and God bless.
We also pay our tithing each month. I’ve paid tithing my entire life, so I hardly even think about it anymore. I did get my settlement sheet for the year last week. It’s a big number but I just consider that it’s not our money to begin with.
God has been known to work a miracle now and then. ;-)
I love the Scripture you quoted. We must always remember, no matter how bad things seem to get, that God has our greater good in mind.
@Amanda D. – God is definitely blessing us. Thank you!
@Amanda R. – I’m glad that you heard what you needed to this morning. I pray that God will provide for you in a miraculous way.
@E.D. – You’re completely right. It’s not our money to begin with.
@Heather – God is definitely good!
@Plonkee – There is definitely something to be said for the attitude change that happens when you tithe regularly.
@Mrs. Micah – There’s always plenty of hugging taking place in our house. But I will make sure I collect an extra hug from my husband, just for you. :)
Hi Everyone,
Lynnae, what a wonderful testimony!
I can testify that God will definitely never be in our debt. He’s promised to meet our needs if we’ll put Him first in our hearts and in our giving. We’ve had many times in our 27 years of marriage that we can look back on and we absolutely knew we’d not have made it financially if God hadn’t been providing in ways we couldn’t imagine. He’s a good Father!
interesting, I’ve been thinking alot about the very same thing. I’ve been bugging our pastor for a while to do a series on tithing. Our church is a missions church and what ever my miss givings on tithing have been I recognize that our church exists because there are people who give above and beyond what is expected of them.
I’m still torn about what to do about tithing while I believe in supporting the church and God’s work I am of two minds. I’m a believer in being realistic, give what you can afford but not enough to cause hardship and on the other hand I’ve seen God move so many times in our lives, stepping in and rescuing us from our own stupidity (latest one was finding out about frugal living made an unbelievable difference in our lives) that I’ve learned that when things seem darkest and doors have been slammed in our face that one only needs to sit back and wait for God to move. And he has many many times. I think that is the reason why we’ve started giving tithe (that and we’re back at church again long story – but few options for Church in Europe) is that I know that God has moved in our live and well, why put that at risk for the want a few dollars.
A few questions I have for Richard to cover. Is tithing a bill that has to be paid every month. If it’s a choice between tithing and rent do you pay the tithe? Do God always provide, and if so why do some Christians how give tithe suffer financial hardship. Do you have to give all your tithe to the church, can you support non church or even non christian organizations. And of course is tithe 10%? Should keep him busy for a while. Also how much is our view of tithing is coloured by the prosperity gospel that says you should give in order to get that new Lexus you soooo deserve.
AS an aside Malcom Gadwell did an interesting article on SaddleBack Church. What suprised me was the fact they are very very strict on tithing which goes against their image of an easy going laid back church.
http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2.....arren.html
Well worth reading, quite and eye opener and remember Malcom Gladwell issn’t a Christian writter.
Over at getrichslowly.org there is a discussion of this very thing Tithing or charitable donations for the non church attender.
Subject came up about a family that is struggling to get by but still give tithe
Financial Advice for Poor People
http://tinyurl.com/2ddtsx
@Rob – Thank you for your thoughts. It’s a difficult subject for sure. I haven’t checked out the discussion at GRS yet.
I don’t believe we should become legalistic about the tithe. I think God is blessed when we give with a joyful heart. It’s not the same if you treat it like a bill and resent giving. I don’t think that’s what the tithe was meant to be.
I do think everyone should give a little, even if they’re broke. There’s just something about giving that changes our attitude about our own situations.
My husband has always felt led to give a full tithe, and now I’m on board with that. But that’s what God has put on our heart. I’m certainly not going to judge someone else, if they don’t feel led to give that much.
So, I guess that’s my take. Be prayerful about how much to give, and then do what God leads you to do. :)
Billy Graham had an interesting take on tithing
we should give individually, regularly, methodically, and proportionately.
This sums my view up completely.
@Rob – Thanks for pointing me to the GRS forum, too. That’s an interesting discussion. I just registered, so I can weigh in, too. :)
@FinanceAndFat – “you need to pray about it and search your heart for the right thing to do. It doesn’t matter what anyone else has to say about it.” That is exactly right. If God is leading you to do something, listen to Him, rather than anyone else.
As I said I’m looking forward to Richards series on tithing (or more correctly stewardship), I’ve been pushing him to be more open about the financial needs of the church. Part of this has been the realization that our church depends alot on others who give above and beyond. My wife and I have been working on being consistent in our giving, less hit and miss and treating it more like a bill that needs to be paid regularly.
Lynnae- that’s an amazing story!
@Rob and other who may wonder about this- the New Testament doesn’t say you have to tithe, but giving from your heart is what matters (and that could mean you should be giving much more than 10% of your money).
On a personal note, I am a Christian and I have chosen NOT to tithe while I am getting out of debt. The way I look at it, it’s not really my money anyway if I owe it to creditors. And you know what, God has continued to bless me. We have made amazing progress and we are making more money now than ever in our lives. I’m not advocating people don’t tithe, but you need to pray about it and search your heart for the right thing to do. It doesn’t matter what anyone else has to say about it.
I always love hearing stories about mystery money appearing when it’s needed most. I pray the Lord continues to bless you and provides your husband with an awesome job :)
I enjoyed reading your story and all of the comments. For years, we believed that tithing was just an old testament thing and that the New Covenant meant to give as you prospered. Thankfully, we’ve come to see that tithing means just that–even if it comes from the old Testament. We’ve been tithing regularly for sometime now. I would be afraid not to.
@boomeyers – Isn’t it incredible how He gives you exactly what you need? Thanks for sharing! And Romans is one of my favorite books too.
I have been slowly increasing our tithing by each month. Creeping up a little at a time. It feels good!
I saw God working today. He gave me enough to pay the sewer/water bill. He gave me the $115 through money people had paid me back and an unexpected babysitting job. We had .52 in our account, so subtract the .12 to add to the bill and we have a whopping .40 to go wild on! ;)
I love the whole book of Romans!
Tithing and believing in God are two different things.
In my good times and even in my bad times I believe in God its not that tithing increases my belief or God will help me only if I tith.I think there is no correlation between the two.
I am strong believer. one thing I believe is that whatever may be the odds against me, there will 1% is of God which will be in my favor and I will surely get help. Let the rest 99.00% rest against me I ll still fight it off.
I really admire you for continuing to tithe in the face of adversity.
God Bless You!
Great post today.
Don’t you just love it when it gets people thinking and “talking” about God and our faith in Him.
Yes, I tithe and live on money WAY below the poverty level, but do have everything I need.
Not my will, but Yours be done.
Maybe if you had saved some of those hundreds of dollars you had been giving to the church, you might have had enough for a really nice camera and a new car, wouldn’t have been depressed in the first place and had enough left over to have a nice christmas with your family. But, hey, whatever makes you feel better…
And Nick comes out swinging!
@Nick – I don’t think I would have felt much better with a new car and a new camera. Money can’t replace a miscarried baby or cure my mom’s leukemia. I think the reason that the money for the camera made me so happy was that it was a reminder of God’s love for me.
And I could have bought a new car or a new camera with the money I tithed, but we didn’t really need a new car or a new camera. They would have been nice, but they weren’t true needs. And I know some of the money I gave to the church went toward people who truly needed food, clothing, and shelter. And the rest went to keep the church running. And I need a place to fellowship with other believers and learn from God’s Word.
So, that’s my feeling on the subject. I appreciate your opinion, but as a Christian, I disagree. :)
Hey Nick, If bullfrogs had wings they wouldn’t bumb their butts when they jumped. But they don’t have wings and they have no choice in the matter. We as people have choices. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s on you.
For Christians who do tithe, look to Matthew 6, verse 19 to 21. “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where theives do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
By us “laying up” to and for our Church, we know where our hearts are.
Finance and Fat you bring up an interesting point, one I see quite often. If you tight for money should you be giving a large tithe? Along the same lines my brother in law has an interesting and rather unusual delima. He attends a rich prosperous pentecostal style church (and regular teaching on tithing helps alot) at the same time he’s a director for a a struggling homeless outreach. Recently the church put on big push to pay off the mortgage and took up an extra offering. He said the money raised by that special offering would have run his organization for a year. So the question is can he give his tithe to another more needy church or organization?
It’s not an question to answer. As always I preface all with questions regarding tithing with the comments that ours is a missions church that depends on people in the US and the UK (and Holland to a lessor extent since Rjykie is Dutch) to pay the salaries because we don’t raise enough money ourselves.
you cannot afford NOT to tithe is the way I see it. Of course, that is DIFFERENT if God tells you what to do with it, then it’s between you and God but considering that the Bible tells we should give then I have to honestly question people telling me that God tells them NOT to give at all. Kris and I have gone through different seasons in our giving…sometimes God called us to give of our time and our home…we had many kids from the youth group at our house and over for dinner and ya know what? Not once was there not enough food or not enough time. Even when we had very little of both in the world’s eyes.
When we moved to Arizona we tithed regularly and when it came down to it and I lost my job and we had nothing to go on, we had cash handed to us left and right because “God put it on my heart to give you this” No one knew we were in SUCH financial dire straits except God.
We got back here and God again put it on our hearts to tithe regularly and we have for almost a year and Lynnae, I have money just APPEAR in my house. Thursday was the most recent example. We had 20 dollars to put gas in and Kris needed to go to the dentist and pay at least 50 dollars for that. I said “Oh Lord I’m not touching the tithe…” (Our tithe is split between the four times we are at church between paychecks…Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday that way we are giving every week) BUT that was the ONLY place I KNEW we still had any cash left…I went through all our envelopes (we are on a cash payment basis right now…) and as I opened the last one, the gas one that I “knew” was empty because I had not put anything in it to begin with…two 50 dollar bills fell out into my hands…Yeah. Ok God I get the point.
There’s more, Lynnae, you already know about my Christmas money from my Grandfather, and I KNOW that’s because we really have been faithfully tithing.
Anyway, to the person who thinks you could use that money for other things, you’d be surprised. I find I have MORE money if I DO tithe than if I don’t.
Carrie,
What a wonderful and uplifting comment.
The Lord blessed me this past week also, with $ 80.00.
I was down to one dollar in my cheaking account !!
@Carrie & Carol – Thanks for weighing in.
@Rob – I have always been taught that the tithe is to go to the church you attend, and any extra to other ministries if you choose. But then churches in the states should be supporting churches overseas, too. Unfortunately, it seems that more and more churches are cutting back on supporting missionary churches, because the stateside churches are strapped. Not a practice I agree with, but it seems to be happening.
@Harris – I don’t see this so much as about the camera as it is about my faith. No matter how little or how much money I have, there will always be something I want, but cannot afford, regardless of how much I give. The important thing to me, regarding this experience, is my realization that God cares about me and about the little details in my life. That’s much more important to me than the camera.
If you were throwing money at the church, you’d have had money for the camera. It seems like things didn’t go so well once you decided to give away more money.
I mean if you weren’t throwing money at the church, you’d have had money.
I think it is important to recognise that God doesn’t owe us because we tithe. We give generously and joyfully as a response to the generosity of God which far exceeds our giving. Not everyone gets cash through their letterbox!
In relation to how much to tithe, Paul’s advice is good: if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have.
Thank you for your testimony!
It was a great blessing for me!
There was a question about tithing that I would like to address.
I learned through my church’s Tithing workshop that you pay 10% of your gross income to your tithes. The difference between tithing and offering is that tithing is a practice of faith and commitment while offerings express gratitude to God for the good he’s been to us. I stress the differences because sometimes people get confused about the subject. The biggest question during the seminars was “How much do I give?” That question goes about things the wrong way. First of all, we aren’t giving to God, we are returning the money he has given us. It’s through him we receive those blessings so it’s only right that we should change “give” to “return.” As the bible says, 10% for tithes. In offerings, how much you return depends on the financial condition you are in. Give as much as you see fit, basically. :D
@Chris – I totally agree with you. For that one time I did get the check in the mail, there have been many other times God chose not to bless us with extra money. Tithing doesn’t guarantee prosperity. I think someone else mentioned the “prosperity gospel”, and that’s just something I don’t agree with.
@Mario – “The difference between tithing and offering is that tithing is a practice of faith and commitment while offerings express gratitude to God for the good he’s been to us.” That’s pretty much how I see things, though I don’t think tithing should become a legalistic practice, where people feel that they must tithe, or God will be out to get them. It’s all about your attitude. Thanks for your perspective.
What a wonderful testimony of God’s goodness!
I have always found that when you give, you get. (Not that that’s why I do it!) But God does provide, and also it is best for us to think of ourselves as being blessed and able to give rather than deprived (although we all feel that way at times).
Thanks for sharing your story. The Lord has blessed us in amazing ways also, and I believe that, at least in part, it’s due to being cheerful givers. Remember, it’s not your husband’s work which provides for your family, it’s the Lord who does.
Thanks, everyone. And it is important to see even the little things as blessings….and to remember that everything is God’s in the first place.
@Patrick – I appreciate your comment. I don’t ever want to come across as preaching that this is what everyone has to do, because I don’t believe that. For our family, we believe that God has led us to give 10%, and we give joyfully.
Though I do believe everyone should give something, I agree with you that attitude is more important than amount in giving.
I pray that you are able to find a good job soon. Unemployment isn’t ever easy.
While I appreciate everyone’s enthusiasm towards tithing, it is a non scriptural act. In the Old Testament (which we no longer live under) you were required to give 10% of whatever you were prospered.
But, since the institution of the New Testament we are only required to give what we are able to give with a cheerful heart. Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Please notice especially verse 7. God does not want to force you to give back part of what he has prospered you as you do not always give with a cheerful heart. He wants you to give back what you can give cheerfully.
I too am unemployed and I fight myself all the time when I write that check. There are those congregations out there that say you MUST give. That is just wrong and goes against what your and my God has told us.
Why are churches always wanting money? There is a church every 3 blocks! Why don’t christians get along well enough to join together? I attended church for 20 years…
#1… they want money… lots of money… for mortgages, parking lots, buses, trips, etc etc.
#2… they still want money… more money, lots & lots of money… that’s all they talk about… oh yeah… and they talk about jesus once and awhile, but for the most part it is to keep the club house going.
I believe in giving, but not to churches. I will give money to organizations that truely help people, not pave a parking lot so that their BMWs don’t get muddy.
Oh man. Its articles like this that make me fear for the future of human beings…
@Ryan – I’m sorry that’s been your experience with church. I can’t say I’ve ever been to a church like that. I’ve seen the budgets of both of the churches I’ve attended as an adult, and I can assure you that most of the money goes toward ministries, and not extravagant building projects.
@Robert – I’m sorry you feel that way.
@David – I absolutely agree that there needs to be accountability when it comes to a church budget. On the other hand, I also believe that pastors need to be paid for their work. Often they are on call 24/7, and they have to make counseling calls that I’d never want to make. And they have families to support too.
If I were going to a church where I had serious doubts about whether the money I was giving was truly going to further God’s kingdom, I’d have to seriously consider whether or not I was at the right church.
As it is, both the church I went to at the time of the kitchen incident and the church I go to now give a lot back to the community. I know without a shadow of a doubt that the money I give back to the church goes to a worthy cause.
What an interesting notion! Begging for money, without actually begging. The people who are benefiting from this tithing are the churches(read preachers), and the return to the parishoners is so minimal to be almost neglible.
It would make a lot more sense to be giving that money to a worthwhile charity, rather than furbishing the church with a new stain glass window in the pastor’s office, or getting him a new car.
There is nothing in the Bible about giving the money to the churches to make them plusher, it was so they would be going out and spreading the word.
No, unless there is an accurate accounting for the money I am giving the church, and it is going to Good Works, they get nothing.
I agree with you Lynnae that there needs to be accountability when it comes to the Lord’s treasury. That goes without saying and if there is none, then it falls on the shoulders of the elders and deacons of the congregation to make sure there is.
That being said, it says in 1 Timothy 5:17-18 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
In this case the labourer is the preacher, evangelist, whatever you call him. The people of the congregation, if they have done so scripturally, have left the disbursement of the Lord’s treasury to the elders and deacons of the congregation. Of course it is the business of the people of the congregation where that money goes, but there must be no division over where it goes. If the elders cannot reach a unanimous decision over the expenditure, it should not be spent.
This is a nice forum you have here. I am sad that Mr. McKibben seems to have had such a bad experience with his congregation. Generally speaking, the congregations of the churches of Christ don’t have the troubles with the money because we follow the dictates of the Bible only and not those of men. We always look to the Bible for our directions, whether it has to do with money or whatever.
Great posting! My wife and I have seen G-d’s work when we tithe and when we don’t. I’m glad someone has the courage to give G-d his credit he helps them!
“Prove me now and see..” says God. Then He says later….”they that tempt God are delivered.” You know, it is the same Hebrew word for both sentences. They should both be prove or tempt. As it is now, it helps the weaker minded of our brethren who have money extorted from them to chase a non existant promise. You should give joyfully to the poor rather than to the tares amongst the wheat.
Exodus 16 and 17 is what God references when He says to ‘tempt me now’ as you did in the wilderness after you tithed your manna into the pot.
Isaiah 33:15 He says to despise the gain of extortions (NIV) which is ‘ma’ashaqqah’ which is very near to ‘ma’aser’ which is tithe.
Almost everyone can survive on 90% of their income and doing so and giving the rest to a cause that you believe in, will make you more content.
@Ryan – I’d really love to see some statistics to back that up. Mega-churches are becoming more common, but the vast majority of churches are still smaller churches with smaller budgets.
That being said, at one time I did go to a larger church (though not a mega-church by any means), and larger churches mean larger budgets for more ministries.
Have you ever seen a church budget? The large church I went to zeroed out their excess money at the end of the year. Do you know where it went? To people who needed money.
Churches with more people need bigger buildings to accommodate the people. Larger sanctuaries are needed for larger congregations, more Sunday School classrooms are needed for the children, more nursery space is needed for the babies.
However, bigger churches also tend to have more ministries. The large church I went to had ministries for men, women, children, teens, a church at the skate park to reach the skater kids, a ministry for recovering addicts, and many more.
The church I go to now helps people who stop in and need help throughout the week. We provide meals every Sunday for the homeless. Christmas baskets for those who don’t have much at Christmas, and the list goes on.
I’m sure there are probably churches out there where it’s all about money and big buildings. But I really don’t think those churches are in the majority. I think the majority of churches just want to point people to Jesus, and often that comes through serving others.
why do churches need such big fancy buildings?
Most of the money goes to keep the club house going.
How much money goes to help the poor and needy? … not very darned much! This is not the exception.. but the rule. Look at the all the mega churches sprouting up.
Ryan, if you are concerned about the ethics of your church’s budget – find another church. Most churches have business meetings throughout the year where the finances are revealed to all who attend. I can assure you that my church is not wasting money on “fancy buildings”.
I hope that you are giving faithfully to the poor and needy if you believe that is a priority. Personally, while I believe the church should help the poor and needy, a church does not exist for that purpose.
Edi, I think you have hit on the essential point – we worship God in the way that we use ALL of our finances. All of our financial dealings should be governed by a commitment to Christ and the morality revealed in Scripture.
Edi you bring up a good point about tithing. My own personal opinion is the same, if you up to year ears in debt you need to focus first on getting out of debt, tithing comes secondary. Which brings up a second point, I think the church puts too much emphasis on giving 10% and not enough on giving consistently. I ran the numbers in our church and if everyone gave a smaller but more consistent amount we’d be able to double our budget. Of course not everyone attends every week so it would be prorated, but the point is still the same. Focus less on the amount and more on giving consistently.
I’ll post a couple of interesting tithing links from Joel Maxwell if I can find it.
I’ve enjoyed poking around your website – I imagine we think pretty similarly to debt and finances.
Here is one thing to consider regarding debt and tithing. An alternative way of thinking…I’m not sure I agree with it totally – but worth considering.
I totally believe it’s Biblical to tithe – to give a portion of our earnings back to God. I acknowledge that He is the owner of all we have.
But when a person is immersed in debt – they are not giving God from their own earnings – they are “stealing” from those they are in debt to. If you are ears over head in debt – I’m talking where you cannot meet your minimum monthly payments on credit cards, mortgage, car whatever, that’s not YOUR money to be giving to God.
If I take $5000 from my neighbor b/c I don’t have $5000 this month for my bills that is ok – the bill collector doesn’t care where the money comes from.
But if you cannot even make your house payment – you are giving God “stolen” money. That money is owed to your mortgage company.
We can become so legalistic about the tithing issue that we miss the point of it.
If you are able to make your minimum payments but are still deeply in debt – I think it’s ok to give less than 10% or whatever normal amount you are used to giving. God is more concerned about our heart condition, our relationship with Him and our attitude.
It’s not a matter of “putting God first” or putting Him “last”…God isn’t interested in giving us something that isn’t ours.
Edi – I completely agree that people can become legalistic about tithing, and that’s not good. I really think that each person needs to do what the Lord leads them to do. I think it’s good to give something, because it reminds us that what we have isn’t ours to begin with.
My husband and I (especially my husband) have always felt led to give 10%, but I wouldn’t recommend that for everyone. It’s better to give a little joyfully than to resent giving more.
I just stumbled upon this website. It is very interesting. I find out that when i tithe , somehow I received more than enough to meet my needs and save some. Even when there seems to be no way out. I am now debtfree except for two hundred dollars that i will pay of January 2008.
I am a believer in tithing
I’ve been enjoying reading above comments, but ran out of time to get them all. That is a LOT of comment!
Want to mention a comment at a Bible study when one woman commented: “Do you realize how much 10% would be?” Apparently her family income was too much for the tithe idea.
Another one’s reaction was “We can’t afford to NOT tithe.”
But what I wanted to mention is we have specific suggestions that I think should be mentioned in a sermon when it comes to stewardship: Malachi 3:10 “Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until there is no more need.”
Again in Proverbs 3:5-10 (all worthwhile, but) I am quoting 9 and 10: “Honor the Lord from your wealth, and from the first of all your produce; So your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats wil overflow with new wine.”
These are from New American Standard translation, and they are clear promises that we can claim. If you wonder, give it a try.
This is a subject I have studied for a while..I also was brought up in a church where you gave from your heart. What I found were several scriptures in the bible about tithing, some saying 5%, some 10%, et cetera. I think that they just took the highest number. I think that we need to not be so concerned about money and get concerned about giving our time and talents as well. I think that some people give excessively in the offering tray just to make up for where they lack!
Hang in their guys, I know exactly how you feel and your dedication to God is exceptional. I have been off work for about 9 months after a long term illness, despite previously being fit and healthy and running marathons. To make matters worse my wife, who i was caring for is also very ill. Neither of us can work and the money ran out from my employment two months ago. God likes statements of faith and we both felt that we should continue tithing despite no formal income. We feel like the little widow who gave her two copper coins when all around everyone else was giving huge sums. However that’s not the point, what you guys are doing is much more valuable to God and whilst those who aren’t Chirstians think we’re mad for doing this, we know that God always provides and he has in the past and he will for you both (if he hasn’t already). I’ll be praying that this week you will see just how great God is at providing for your needs. I only just found your blog and I think it’s great to have a Christian perspective on finance keep posting!
This will be quite a long comment
I asked my Brother in law the following question regarding tithing: He is the director for a cash strapped street mission and attends one of the largests and wealthest churches in the region. Secondly they teach and he believes in strict tithing.
My Question to him:
” …..secondly since you attend a rich wealthy church and lwork for a poor cash strapped street mission he’s an interesting question. Most tithing churches tend to teach the following 10% to general fund and then extra to building fund,mission etc plus an extra you might give outside of that.
So how do you give? I mean by that Koneinia is a very well to do church, can you attend while designating your tithe to go to missions only? ”
His answer:
I have never found anything in the bible that convinced me that I “Must give 10% to the church”. The closest I can see is in Malachi 3:10 if you focus only on the word “ALL”. Is Ray of Hope ‘NOT’ God’s storehouse? Then yes don’t give to us based on this. I believe all Christian parachurch organizations are God’s storehouse doing what the church should be doing. However, our society has segregated everything so worship is “church” and everything else is not. God knows I give 10% donations to Christian charity. It may only be 1 or 2 % to my church, only because it is extremely rich with huge surpluses. I have supported 3 World Vision children for 28 years, I support Promise Keepers who challenge men in their walk with God, I give to Refugees, some Dorothea and I give to Jeramey to help our nephew. I believe that I am being generous in giving more to Oasis every 6 months than all that Koinonia does in a year. They give around .005% to Oasis and .1% to the Dream Centre. They do give to a lot of other organizations, but continue to build their own industry first.
I have to watch my attitude and I don’t know why God has me in the richest church in KW with the largest congregation, with a great relationship with the pastor, yet unable to get more than a pittance out of them.
My bible says give to the poor over 400 times and refers to helping less fortunate people over 2,000 times.
Pastors may be able to exegesis out of scripture how tithe or the first 10% is to be to the church and the church will then distribute it proportionately to the parachurch organizations. If this is true, then why are churches getting bigger with more new state of the art electronic equipment and buildings while parachurch organizations struggle more to do twice as much with less and less?
Hope this answers your question.
Wow!
I’ll put my thoughts in next comment
He is very correct, when he does fund raising he gets alot more money for the community than he ever does from the church. He doesnt even bother anymore because the effort isn’t worth the return. Kind of sad isn’t it! Unfortunately most Christians give 100% of their tithe to the church and nothing to other organisations that serve the community.
My own take on tithing is two fold. From a PF point of view living on less is always good. From a Christian point of view I always say that what seperates humans from the animals is intelegence and what seperates Christians from Non Christians is faith and trust in God. I give tithe because it’s a statement of faith in God. Currently I give 5% and when we are debt free we will increase it to 10% (of the net). But more importantly than the amount is giving consistently. Also our church doesn’t raise enough money to meet all our needs to I give 100% of my tithe to the church.
Our church designates 5% to care ministry and 10% to missions.
Richard (our pastor) commented that Americans churches are really into buildings.
Thanks for the ongoing discussion, Rob. I’m finding it very thought provoking.
“when he does fund raising he gets alot more money for the community than he ever does from the church.” I think that’s incredibly sad, especially considering how well to do his church is.
I’ve always been taught to give 100% of my tithe to my home church to support it’s operation. What you describe in your brother-in-law’s situation is completely foreign to me. I’ve attended two churches regularly in my adult life. One was a fairly large church, and it took in a lot of money, but it wasn’t into ornate buildings and high salaries. A large portion of what it took in went out to the community. They started a skate church for skater kids, a support group for drug addicts, and lots of other things of that nature. In fact, at the end of the year, they zeroed out the missions accounts, no matter how big they were, by giving to various missions in the community and overseas.
The church I currently attend is smaller with a small budget. For such a small church, we also put a lot of money into both overseas and local missions. Because of my experience, I’ve never had an issue with giving my entire tithe to the church. I can see where you’re coming from though. I don’t know what I’d do in your brother in law’s shoes.
I think it always comes down to where your heart is. I think God is more apt to look at whether you’re a cheerful giver, giving to serve Him, rather than whether you’re obeying all the laws of tithing, so to speak.
Hi Lynnae Jon’s situation is somewhat unique in that he lives in a very nice part of town and attends a well to do church, but he works with the very hardcore homeless. Unlike the working poor the people he deals with can’t pull them pull themselves up with hard work, many are mentally ill and I think he finds the contradiction between the two very difficult to deal with. They talk about raising money to pay the mortgage off and he talks about raising money to feed people who don’t have enough. It’s hard to deal with. I really don’t think I could do what he does. I also know Konenia supports alot of missions as well.
My own take on tithing is quite simple, it’s a statement that God is our provider. And Billy Graham put it best when said that most Christians find that 90 goes further than the 100. Our tithe currently goes to our church as well. Our church also gives 10% to missions and 5% to care.
I love Billy Graham’s view! I hadn’t heard that before, but I’m going to remember it. It’s so true!
@Jenn – Thanks for stopping by! I think it’s initially hard to get past the “I could really use this for something else” feeling. But my experience as been that after time, you see God’s provision again and again. And you find your attitude changes. That’s what happened with me, anyway.
I’ve also heard the same thing about the difference between tithes and offerings. I need to work a little harder on the offering part. When I finally get out of debt, I want to be able to give more than I give now.
Hi Lynnae, I got here through Get Rich Slowly and really enjoy your writing. I have been thinking a lot about tithing lately. I don’t make much money, so I often think, “I could use this tithe money to pay more toward my student loan or save for a newer car, or to pay off that big bill.” But I know that if I am faithful in giving back to G-d what He gave me in the first place, He’ll take care of me.
On another note–my parents raised me to put my tithe money into two categories: tithe and offering. Tithe was given to the church we were going to. Offering could be given to any other ministry or special need. I really like that practice, because I can be faithful in giving back to a church that gives me so much, but I also have a ready supply of money if a guest speaker comes in or if a friend is raising support for a missions trip.
Were in the same boat, as we get debt free I’d like to increase our givings as well, my first goal was to give consistantly rather than hit and miss. I’ve also slowly been increasing our tithe with the goal of giving 10% (of the net I never think in germs of gross only net).
I know from experience that God will provide, often not in the way that we expect though.
While I don’t believe in titheing as a set amount and personally want to grow my charity output, I applaud anyone who does
Walking the path and talking the path are two different things.
It is great o hear of good people who do the right thing, especially when it is hard to do!
I been tithing 10% for two years and ill tell you it works god has helped me get an opertunity to get more money im very healthy all my bills are paid and ive got no complaints about gods math
Why give money to a church? Why build big fancy buildings just for people to show off their BMWs & new clothes each Sunday? I went to church with my wife for over 25 years (several churches over those years). Each and every week they keep drilling into people to give give give give. They actually had classes and courses and brain washing sessions just to drill it into peoples heads that they must give 10% (or more) to the church. Money gubb’n scum. And people seriously believe that god will then win them a lottery or something if they do. They always seem to rationalize it somehow. “Oh god did this for me or god did that” just because I gave money…. BS!!!! . How naive, how delusional. Look around your own city, your own country and the rest of the world. Please if you feel you must give 10% of your income away, please give it to someone who really needs it.
Mr D you bring up two separate issues. One your anger with church, it took me years to understand (while I more or less keep my faith we stopped attending church for a period of about 10 years and only very recently started attending again) is that the church is full of people and when we look to people we will always be let down. (This is somewhat the church’s fault). It took me a long time to understand that my relationship is with God not the church, both my wife and I had to learn to look to God not to the church.
Secondly American churches do tend to have a emphasis on large buildings unfortunate but true.
How much to give, net gross, I can’t answer that for you only that for us we’re learning that the 90 goes further than the 100. Ours happens to be a poor church that doesnt yet pay any saleries so buildings aren’t an issue for us :)
Everyone seems to forget what attending services is all about. We are there to serve the Lord. If someone has had a bad experience with “the church” then it is the people there that they have had a problem with, not God. Men are the ones that seem to think that their wisdom is greater than God’s and every single time it is proven that they are wrong.
The mega churches are no more than money machines for the so called preacher that is doing the speaking for them. Health and wealth preaching will continue to bring down the Lord’s people until we all realize that we should follow Jesus’ advice to the rich young ruler. Sell everything, give it to the poor and follow him.
I pray that we all wake up before it is to late for us. God bless!
@mj – I’m glad you have seen blessings from tithing.
Mr. D – I agree with Rob & Patrick that the problem isn’t with the church, but rather the people who are in charge. If that has been your experience with a church, then maybe that’s not the right church for you. There are plenty of churches out there that sincerely try to serve the Lord by helping the poor in the neighborhoods around them. There are a lot of megachurches that give the rest of us Christians a bad name, but honestly I’ve been to some good megachurches, too. Just because there are a few bad apples doesn’t mean that all churches are bad.
@ Rob – You are absolutely right. We always need to be looking to God. People aren’t perfect, and they will always let you down. But God can and does work through imperfect people every day.
@ Patrick – Thanks for weighing in. You are right on. The problem isn’t with God at all. It’s important to go to a church where the leadership sincerely desires to follow God. Yes, they will make mistakes, but if they are sincerely trying to follow God, God can work through and use those mistakes for His Glory.
I was so moved by God’s love in hearing your heart, that I fell to my knees to worship Him. He is so loving and gracious. Tithe? Yes, it’s bibical and He always has a reason for what He says. He allows outblesses what we give cheerfully. What a GREAT God we serve! I could write all morning on the ways He has blessed me supernaturaly but all He really wants is for us to love Him and obey His Word. Please check up on all the promises He gives us. AWESOME! Much love to all my brothers and sisters in the Lord.
Gotta keep the pastor-priest-parasites fat and happy. . . while they molest your kids.
If you guys get blessed so darn much, why do so many people in this world suffer so much. Wouldn’t a loving god be a little more fair? I’ve heard the ‘free will’ b.s. and a bucket load of other flimsy excuses. I am so sick and tired of people going on about how they were blessed (new promotion, great deal on the BMW, kids with straight teeth). Then you look elsewhere to other countries… for instance in Africa. They get the short end of the stick. They would be happy with a darn stick to put in the fire.
Maybe gods not really there? I think thats the real truth people.. deal with it.
@bipolar2 & Mr. D – While I appreciate different opinions on my blog, I do ask that the comments be kept respectful. Please refer to my comment policy (link in the sidebar) if you have any questions.
Some wonderful stuff here. The very principal of tithing is missed by some. A tithe is 1/10 of all your income. Any less is not a “tithe”. The idea is by giving your first fruits to God you are stepping out in faith. When you honor Him with your wallet,not just your mouth..weird/unexplainable things happen to your finances.With each check your perspective on money changes, and at some point you realize you are ahead of the “jones’”,but are no longer concerned with that sort of thing.
God speaks to me every time I tithe. I hear his loving voice telling me how much he loves me and my money. It’s a blessing to give to the lord. He needs the money more than I do. I would only spend the extra money on things that don’t last. He uses my money to build heaven. If we don’t have enough to eat or we miss a rent payment, God says that’s okay. He still loves me even If I don’t eat. He was telling me before that I was getting too large. Maybe this is his way of helping me loose weight. God is great, God is wonderful. I love God and Jesus so much. May God Bless everyone as much as he blesses me.
John while I agree with supporting the church the idea that a tithe is 10% of the gross simply isn’t scriptural, if anything it’s legalism. My own personal take is that support needs to be a consistent amount that you can afford, and as your faith grows so does your giving. I’ve talked to quite a few pastors regarding tithing, including ones who rely on support raised and non of them would commit to the idea of 10% tithing. If you want to know more go to Tithing Debate
Just because God saved you from yourselves doesnt mean that tithing is Gods will. God has saved me from death a few times when it was my own stupidity that put me there. I have quit going to Church and the false doctrine of tithing is one reason why. I have tithed and it almost killed me. Show me anywhere that tithing is a new testament concept. Its not. Tithing in its present form was invednted by catholics around 500AD as a TAX.
So perhaps God saved you from yourselves while you padded the pockets of the Church. Perhaps he even honored your intentions but spreading the tithing propaganda bugs me. Too many Christians are sheep who follow people off the cliff. Thats the same reason so many (me included before I got a brain) voted for Bush.
May God Bless You
@Spritebear – Wow. I don’t know where to begin. The concept of tithing goes back to the old Testament. And while tithing is never mentioned explicitly in the New Testament, the concept of giving back to God what is already his is mentioned.
That being said, I don’t think people should be legalistic about the 10%. That’s what my husband felt we should give, and in faith I went along with it. And out of that came the story that is my post.
Tithing isn’t about money. It’s about faith and attitude. It’s about trusting God to take care of you, even in hard times. It’s about being so grateful for the blessings you have that you joyfully give back a portion to be used to help others.
There are a lot of comments in this thread about “padding the church coffers.” If you truly feel that your church is using the money you give purely for the purpose of building larger buildings, then perhaps you are going to the wrong church.
I’ve mentioned before in the comments here that I’ve never gone to a church like that. I have been in the church building on a weekday, when there are people from off the streets standing in the foyer, because they need a little help. And our church helps them. We have a ministry that feeds the homeless every Sunday afternoon. We let community groups use our church building for functions when they need it. 12 step groups who are totally unaffiliated with the church meet there. I could go on.
The purpose of giving the tithe is to increase our faith and gratefulness for what we have. The church’s responsibility when they receive the tithe is to use it to minister.
My concern is where I stand before God. My attitude, my obedience, and my willingness to step out in faith. It’s up to God to deal with a church who is abusing money given back to God. And I believe He will someday.
There are a few churches that use their money wisely. Its just in the past 25 years all of the churches I’ve attended with my wife (7 churches in all) were not like that. These included small town churches, big city churches, inner city churches, opulent suburban churches.
They were always after money over and above the tithing. money for paving the parking lot, money for a bus, money to send kids on a ‘mission trip’ ie: holiday. Money for excessive sound systems.. the list goes on and on. Helping the poor around the world was secondary. The missions trips were not bad in principal, but sending a dozon kids on a trip to central america where they help with a church is a very poor way to spend money. Just the plane fare alone could have fed dozens of families for months. But the churches always find a way to justify it. sigh.
When you tithe, who do you give the money to?
What?? you want a piece of me also?
sorry but I had to make this Anonymous as the sensitive nature I can’t really talk about it on my blog either:( but trust me I’m a regular reader.
We’ve been hearing rumors for a while that my wife’s company (she’s the breadwinner) will be restructuring again. Nothing new happens all the time, expect this time she was asked to help out on a project who’s main focus is to eliminate her whole department. She also had to sign a non disclosure agreement (hence the reason for Anonymous) We simply don’t know if at the end she or any of her co-workers will have a jobs down the road. We both feel the chances are very very high that she will be unemployed sometime in the not to distant future.
Now the part regarding tithe. Recently my Wife and I started giving tithe and have seen God really pour out the blessings. We both felt that this fall we should up the ante and increase it. Now that the hard part. Keeping tithe going while we cut costs elsewhere trusting that God will provide. I’m 99% sure that God will provide but seen enough other Christians have financial problems that there is that small seed of doubt.
We both talked about it and decided to keep our previous commitment and take it month by month. I am going to put in more effort to cut costs ramp up our savings and get some more of our debt gone.
Ultimately we have to place our trust in Gods hands!
@Anonymous – I pray that everything works out for you. As someone who’s been there, I believe God will provide for you. It might not be easy, and you might only be able to afford the basics, but you will have everything that you need.
Blessings to you, and thanks for sharing.
I remind myself that God has provided for us and will continue to do so. We’re also taking the time to continue to refine our spending and savings, not a bad thing.
I don’t have a lot of money. I’m a single mom of 3, and we barely make ends meet. However I was taught from an early age that the church needs my money more than I do. The church needs nice buildings to attract more people, and those people will give their money also. God and Jesus needs my money and the church needs my money. How can I argue with that. God tells me in my prayers that he wants more money than I’ve been giving, so of course I will give more. My kids don’t get hunger too often, and they understand. God knows what’s best, and he says that If I can’t make a rent payment or two, that’s ok, because he loves me. Everytime he asks for more money he says he loves me. He must really love me, because he sure asks for a lot of money.
Praise Jesus’s name
Dear Sheila, Yes I hear you loud and clear. God tells me to give more and more every time I talk to him. He says he and Jesus have big plans, and they need lots of money. My mamma always told me to give to the church, and that’s just what I do. God told me that paying child support was not as important as giving to the church. My ex-wife disagrees, but she will have to take that up with God in the afterlife. For now, the church gets her support checks. Praise his name oh Jesus.
I really get tired of reading comments of people that don’t believe there is a God that controls all, is the creator of all, and holds all of our fates in his hand.
As far as giving our money away, it wasn’t our money to begin with. Everything we have we owe to our God so what’s the big deal. My wife and I cheerfully give to the Lord every week. God is not a bad steward of something that is already His. He allows us to use it to further the work of the church in our respective areas.
Finally, I want to say that I am a 50 year old college student with a wife that works part time. We still give and will always give to our Lord’s treasury each first day of the week. 10% is NOT required so we give what we can cheerfully give and feel good in our hearts because God knows that we give all that we can. God bless you all, even those that don’t believe.
I just want to remind everyone that dissenting viewpoints are welcome on this site, as long as they are respectful. There seems to be a problem with that lately, so disrespectful comments and parts of comments have been deleted, as per my comment policy. http://beingfrugal.net/about/disclosure-policy/
This post is about my personal experience and was not meant to turn into a debate on religion. Since it is an old post, and only those who want to debate religion seem to be commenting anymore, I am closing the comments.